Village Council Candidates Answer Questions from The Granville Press
The Granville Press believes it is important voters have the opportunity to hear directly from the candidates with minimal filtration and interpretation.
With this in mind, we asked each of the candidates for Village Council to answer some questions. The ground rules were simple: they could write whatever they wanted and we would publish their answers without modification (other than minor format changes and typographical correction).
Following are the questions and answers presented in the order in which the answers arrived at The Granville Press. In upcoming days candidates for the Board of Education will have their chance.
Melissa Hartfield

What is your occupation?
Contract Administrator – Mid-Ohio Mechanical, Inc. located in Granville. I perform financial work, which involves forecasting, analysis, billing, collections and risk management. Also, Manager of Lake Hudson Inc. – swimming facility. Owner of Tennis Courts, which are used by the Granville Tennis Club.
What community involvement have you had in the past?
Open Space Committee Member – 2006-2007.
Board Member Chamber of Commerce – 8 years, also President of organization for 2 years.
Member of Village Council 2001-present.
Mayor from 2005 – present.
What do you want to accomplish as a member of the Village Council?
Public hearings and finalization of the revised Comprehensive Plan.
Finalize the S. Main Street development plans and agreements relating to the request from Metropolitan Partners.
Keep a close watch over finances as the economy fluctuates in order to be prepared to make budgetary changes if revenue reduction occurs.
Maintain communication and openness with the residents.
Partner with other organizations to ensure the retention of the existing business in the community.
What could the Village do to help the Township?
The Village could help the Township in situations similar to what was proposed for the Owens Corning property – water and sewer services, based on appropriate zoning to prevent other providers from entering the area and spurning growth inconsistent with the wishes of the community. Also provide support in areas that are vulnerable to hostile annexation, similar to what occurred in the James Road area. Work together on the Pathway plan based on the final recommendations of the Pathway Committee.
What could the Village do to help the School District?
The Village proper has very little undeveloped land. The Village can help the School District by continuing to provide support to the Township with services where appropriate – at risk areas from outside providers. Finalizing the S. Main Street development to provide additional tax base for the School system.
Should the Village pay for infrastructure related to development? For example, should a developer be required to provide land for roads and utilities or should the Village be required to pay for such land?
Hartfield: Individually I am not supportive of the Village paying for infrastructure costs related to a for-profit development. Developers should pay for their own roads and utilities associated with their specific development requirements. Taxpayers should not be burdened with the costs that a for-profit corporation should be paying without assistance. Many times proposals can come forward under the guise of creating economic development, for example a TIF district. But those proposals can freeze taxes on those properties for decades, the School Districts lose out and taxpayers gain nothing in the end.
Should a community tell a landowner how his or her land can be used?
Actually, the community already does tell a landowner how their land can be used through input from the Comprehensive Plan, which then helps guide the zoning laws. The zoning laws give a landowner certain parameters and criteria for what is permitted in the Village. A landowner should be permitted to work within the law and the parameters given by Village, otherwise the process becomes unpredictable and unreliable. The appropriate place to determine what can or cannot be built is through the zoning text and being certain that uses are consistent with the Comprehensive Plan as well as the wishes of the community.
Michelle Lerner

What is your occupation?
Teacher, The Welsh Hills School
Freelance design artist
What community involvement have you had in the past?
Not only do I enjoy working in our community, but I feel strongly that volunteering and giving something back to the community is important. Some of the things I have done in recent years include:
—Granville Parent Co-operative Pre-school Board Member
—Granville PTO, committee chair positions
—Arts Mania instructor at GMS
—Girl Scout Troop Leader
—Co-founder, Licking County Support Group for Parents of Children w/ Type I Diabetes
Most recently, I worked with another Granville resident, Beth Smith, to coordinate the first large scale community team for the Central Ohio Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation (JDRF). Our team, The Granville Gang, had over 300 participants and raised over $15,000.00 towards a cure for type I diabetes.
What do you want to accomplish as a member of Village Council?
My webpage, lernerforcouncil.com, and my facebook page, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michelle-Lerner-for-Granville-Village-Council/176624710254, offer more extensive accounts of what I hope to accomplish. Above all else, I want to ensure that Granville remains the same wonderful place for my children and grandchildren that it has been for me and my family. That means preserving the historic small-town charm of the Village; it means welcoming business development in order to ensure that local taxes are low and that residents can get the types of goods and services that they want; it means keeping taxes low and investigating all possible methods of increasing local government efficiency in the hopes of saving future taxpayer dollars; and it means working towards making Granville a ‘greener’ and more efficient community by shifting to a single-payer trash system, developing expanded recycling options, and exploring a community wireless internet network.
What could the Village do to help the Township?
The Village of Granville can best serve the Township by working WITH it to foster an atmosphere of community and cooperation. We are the same wonderful place - we need to work together to achieve the things all of our residents want - safe roads, sidewalks, bike paths, green space, parks, etc. And maybe, someday, even a pool!
What could the Village do to help the school district?
Education is one of the most vital aspects of this community. Having excellent schools helps ensure high property values, attracts high-quality businesses, and fosters an atmosphere of pride and a sense of community that helps make Granville special. And of course, most importantly, it educates our children! One thing that the Village can do to help the school districts is to encourage future business development. Granville currently has a dramatic imbalance in the source of its school revenue, relying much more heavily on individual rather than business taxes. And while it is important to welcome new families to Granville and provide their children with the same quality education our children currently enjoy, the Village, the Township, and the School Board, must coordinate efforts to ensure that local growth does not overwhelm our schools. It is important that the Council continue to work very closely with the School Board in order to make sure that we grow together, and that we support improvements in school-related infrastructure and technology.
Should the Village pay for infrastructure related to development? For example, should a developer be required to provide land for roads and utilities or should the Village be required to pay for such land?
Issues related to development need to be judged on an individual basis. It is reasonable for the Village to assist developers in cases where the development in question would benefit the community. If, for example, Granville can attract a high-quality business that would generate significant tax revenue without severely straining our current infrastructure or traffic density, and which conforms to the building codes of the community, then I would support making a limited investment in their future, for the long-term good of our community. This, however, would not be the case for businesses that do not offer Granville a high return, both economic and social, on its investment.
A specific example would be the potential development on South Main and the River Rd area. The Village is currently exploring the possibility of annexing this area and extending water and sewer services in order to facilitate business growth. I would be in favor of this type of expenditure. But typically, I feel that developers should accommodate for the land needed for utilities and new roads within their own plans.
Should a community tell a landowner how his or her land can be used? Why or why not?
Granville has been a planned community since its inception over 200 years ago. Many of the things residents value about Granville exist because we have a Comprehensive Plan that guides development and building codes. Our charming downtown and our historic neighborhoods might not be what they are today if we did not have established guidelines that protect them. I do respect the rights of private landowners, however, and I feel that there are times when exceptions to the guidelines must be made. Each case should be judged individually. For example, in cases where property owners have chosen to use their property in ways that do damage to their neighbors or the community as a whole, or are clearly violating village guidelines, then the community is justified in intervening. In another example, cases where property owners have chosen to employ new technology for safer, cleaner, and more efficient power, the community should explore ways to allow for a variance.
Matt McGowan

What is your occupation?
Business Department chair and teacher at
What community involvement have you had in the past?
Served 12 years on Granville Village Council, served as Mayor of Granville for 2 years and served as Vice Mayor of Granville for 2 years. Member of Granville Chamber of Commerce, member of Granville Kiwanis club, member of Granville Recreation Commission, Member of St Edward Church, president of RunGranville Running Club and race director of the Bryn Du Summer Cross Country Series.
What do you want to accomplish as a member of Village Council?
McGowan: I want to help our Village government provide services in a fiscally prudent manner, taking into account the wants and needs of our residents. I want to help improve communication between our residents and Village staff. And I want to help maintain the community we love.
What could the Village do to help the Township?
Continue to support the Township Fire Department to maintain their current facility, as well as helping them site new facilities when needed. Work with the Township to develop pathways to connect our entire community. We should work to maintain a strong, vibrant Village that draws townships residents in to work, shop, recreate and worship here.
What could the Village do to help the school district?
We should continue our services to the school, including safety days and providing police coverage for the intermediate school. Our police officers should continue to support the efforts of the schools as they work on their crisis and safety plans. We should engage them in discussions about the location of new schools so they understand the impact of additional traffic flows of our residents.
Should the Village pay for infrastructure related to development?
For example, should a developer be required to provide land for roads and utilities or should the Village be required to pay for such land? “New developments should pay their own way in terms of infrastructure. If we ask property owners to build improvements beyond what is needed for their own uses and that benefit others, then all persons who benefit should share in the cost of those public improvements.
Should a community tell a landowner how his or her land can be used? Why or why not?
Our zoning laws set the limits of how property owners use their properties - - and they reflect the choices expressed by our community. If a use complies with our zoning laws, our Village government should generally support the owner’s choice of use. When owners want variances beyond what is allowed by our zoning, our BZBA should provide those variances only where they promote our community’s values.
Ben Barton

What is your occupation?
Employee Benefits, Insurance, Estate & Family Wealth Planning
What community involvement have you had in the past?
Granville Area Chamber of Commerce (current board member, past president)
Open Space Committee Member
Spring Valley Pool Planning Committee Member
Granville Rec Commission (player, coach, referee, volunteer since 1974)
School Levy Steering Committee
Sugar Loaf Park Foundation
Midland Theatre Advisory Board
What do you want to accomplish as a member of Village Council?
I’d like to see progress made to improve the traffic and parking issues that continue to dampen actual foot traffic in and around downtown. If we can help the downtown business district thrive, then every effort should be made to improve the current situation.
I’d like to see much more fiscal transparency with regard to the flow of money, both budgetary and unencumbered funds. If there exists a prudent and responsible way to lower the tax burden in the community we should make a concerted effort to help ease this burden.
The continued battle against "who can build" continues to be an expensive and losing proposition. I believe the zoning laws can be improved to control "what gets built", giving the village a more clear vision of future development. Establishing higher standards of development will eliminate much of the "cookie cutter" look scattered about middle America.
What could the Village do to help the Township?
There is a lot of common ground already, and both entities deserve credit for strengthening that relationship. Moving forward, I think the biggest issue is development - appropriate commercial development to be more specific - and the village wields tremendous power with its public utilities. IF (emphasis added) it is determined (think: comprehensive plan) that a tax revenue positive commercial / corporate long term commitment is possible, I think the village needs to think and act quickly with regard to the extension of utilities into areas of the township that the Comprehensive Plan has already identified as appropiate for service based (medical, financial, legal) and technology-based (OCF, Dow, Paramount)
What could the Village do to help the school district?
The needs of all Ohio schools will continue to grow, and the village needs to be keenly aware of the burden that is being placed on our homeowners. For all of Granville’s successes in the community and in the classroom, it’s unfortunate that we end up being penalized by the state. At some point in the not too distant future those same lines will cross in Granville and we’ll be faced with financial questions never before asked. I truly believe that our seniors hold the key to a town’s future success, and it’s imperative that the village get out in front of this issue, so we continue to nurture the true value of these folks.
Should the Village pay for infrastructure related to development? For example, should a developer be required to provide land for roads and utilities or should the Village be required to pay for such land?
My understanding is that the responsibility falls on the developer. Various opportunities exist to find appropriate public / private financing, and the village may indeed choose to participate in an effort to help improve the development, and move the process along.
Should a community tell a landowner how his or her land can be used?
The community has opportunities every few years "speak" through it’s approved zoning laws, and those zoning laws should be constantly updated and improved to accommodate the types of development that the community deems appropriate.
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Barton Who???
Who is the real Ben Barton? Is he the progressive guy who wants stricter zoning as he states in his post card? Or is he the guy who is on record arguing for more fast food restaurants in Granville and for more buildings per acre for his own River Road property? Isn’t there is a credibility issue here?
Am I right, or am I just naive about these things?
Locally-owned businesses that help the schools are best
Ben Barton writes: "I don’t think it’s fair to pick and choose which businesses are allowed to operate in Granville."
We disagree on this. I think it is entirely appropriate for a community to decide which businesses are allowed to operate.
If there is a business like fast food or fast beverage that costs the community a lot of infrastructure money to support, causes a lot of traffic, and gives little tax revenue to the schools why in the world should a community have zoning that allows that taxpayer draining business? That just makes no sense.
There are other good reasons for a community to decide which businesses are allowed to operate. For decades the comprehensive plan surveys have indicated residents want downtown to remain the commercial hub of Granville. Given that wish, why would Granville make it easy to put certain critical businesses elsewhere that would interfere with the goal of downtown remaining the commercial hub? You mention a classic instance of this. In talking about the council meeting, you say "council relented and removed the retrictive nature of the zoning." The only change council made was to add drug stores to the permitted uses in non-downtown commercial districts. That was an unfortunate change that helped scare the owner of Taylor’s enough so that he felt he had to sell out to CVS.
Apparently this is fine with you as you say we should not control who gets to build businesses. I think it makes a difference if it is a locally-owned business. Local ownership means the money made gets reinvested in the community rather than being taken to another state. In addition, a local owner by definition means the better paid management positions are taken by local residents.
If you want to have any locally-owned businesses survive you have to take account of the non-level playing field. National and regional chains drive out local businesses by offering merchandise at below market prices that are subsidized by their profits in communities where they have already driven out their competitors. Then once the local competitors are out of business, supra-normal profits are made. CVS had a long running advertising campaign with the slogan "one customer at a time." At one point I had the opportunity to talk with some CVS upper management. The internal joke was that the real motto was "one store at a time" referring to knocking off competing stores one-by-one and then jacking up the prices.
Ben, it does make a difference "who builds." Let’s keep our money in our community. Let’s have better paying jobs for Granville residents, not for people in some other community or state while we get left with the hamburger-flipping jobs.
Level playing field
You have hit the nail on the head with the uneven playing field. That is where a simplistic application of free enterprise fails.
Capitalism works great. But it needs a level playing field.
Our local businesses need all the help they can get.
Strengthen the zoning? Examine and improve village traffic?
Yesterday I received a postcard from Ben Barton. In his postcard Barton says he will "strengthen the zoning" and "examine and improve village traffic."
In the Village Council minutes for March 3, 2004, Ben is speaking against an ordinance designed to prevent fast food restaurants and similar high traffic, low tax revenue businesses from coming into Granville. (See below for direct quotes regarding the ordinance from the 3/3/2004 Village Council minutes.)
I guess I am not real sure what Ben means by "strengthen the zoning" and by "examine and improve village traffic."
The last thing we need is a bunch of high infrastructure cost, low tax revenue businesses like fast food restaurants. That will just increase the overall tax burden on village taxpayers and force more seniors out of the community.
————————————————————————————————————————————————
The following is quoted verbatim from the minutes for the Village Council meeting on March 3, 2004.
"Ben Barton, 67 Pinehurst Drive, stated that he also owns property on River Road. Mr. Barton stated that he is guessing by comments heard thus far that there has been no ongoing discussions between Council and the Chamber of Commerce in regards to Ordinance No. 02-04. Mr. Barton stated that Council needs to step back and take time he stated that we dont need an emergency. Mr. Barton stated that things should be done over time and done right. He ended by stating that they need to let the community decide not seven people.
Dan Bellman, 320 North Pearl Street, stated that he is in support of Ordinance No. 02-04. Mr. Bellman stated that what Granville needs is high quality businesses that bring a high tax base, but low traffic. Mr. Bellman stated that he was a bit suspicious of some of mentioned tax revenue by Mr. Sheldon, and he has been suspicious of information received by them in the past. Mr. Bellman stated that when looking at taxes you need to look at property taxes and income taxes. He stated that it is pretty intuitive that the income tax generated by a sixteen year old part time worker is going to be less than that of a physician, lab technician, or dentist. He stated that businesses like that in Erinwood are the best types of facilities are perfect revenue generators, and have the least impact on surrounding residents. Mr. Bellman stated that he feels property values could be affected if the Ordinance does not pass, which would also have a negative affect on school taxes. He stated that if a fast food restaurant were to be built it would reduce the value of a $300,000/ $400,000 home in Erinwood if the property owners could smell hamburgers at their house and have to deal with the traffic complications. Mr. Bellman stated that its easy for some to say that this intersection is the appropriate place for development. He stated that our community has stated that they dont want terrible traffic congestion like that of Pickerington or Brice Road. He stated that there appears to be an organized group in attendance tonight to show their disapproval for the Ordinance, but to keep in mind that the majority of Granville has already spoken that they do not want high traffic businesses (along with the congestion) in Granville. Mr. Bellman stated that in terms of traffic Wendys generates 2000 trips per day. He went on to say that Council has already spent over $400,000 to widen and make improvements to the south side of Cherry Valley Road. He stated that the first two or three or four businesses are going to consume all the capacity that we spent over $400,000 to build. He stated that if quality of life is desired, that cost is simply too high. Mr. Bellman also stated that in the Streets and Sidewalk it was stated that by having low traffic businesses in the PCD, Doyle Clear believes there will be traffic problems even with the road structure remaining as it is.
Ben Barton stated that Mr. Bellman doesnt speak for all of Granville, and he speaks for no one that he knows. He stated that when Mr. Bellman spoke of what Granville wants and needs he is making a one man wrecking ball statement. Mr. Barton stated that Mr. Bellman is wrong when he eluded that there is a coalition of people in opposition here tonight and that he spoke with no one prior to coming to the meeting. Mr. Barton stated that he still remembers seven years ago when there was the issue of the Paramount building (when Mr. Bellman was on Council) and when millions in tax revenue could have been generated. He stated that this was shoved aside because it was too big and the wrong this and the wrong that, and Mr. Bellman didnt allow it as a Councilmember. Mr. Barton stated that he implores Council to step back and take their time on this.
Dan Bellman, North Pearl Street, stated that Mr. Bartons statements in regards to the Paramount building are a fabrication. He stated that he is able to produce files to prove otherwise and that everything with Paramount was approved by the Planning Commission, but never reached Council because they bought the Dow facility."
(Bellman is right on this. In fact, Paramount’s Mike Menzer even wrote a letter to the village thanking them for their speedy approval.)
(The original Village Council minutes are here.)
Thank you
Rogerh:
Thank you for bringing this issue up.
For the record, I wasn’t arguing in favor of fast food restaurants, I was arguing against the restrictive nature of the ordinance on the table at that time. Council was trying to manipulate free enterprise, and landowner rights, and I take issue with that.
I have been a proponent of "strengthening" our zoning for several years, and I know I have been consistent, because I continue to use the exact same quote every time:
"Control WHAT gets built, and not who builds."
The current size and scope of our zoning does a good job of keeping the ‘big box’ look out of town, but there exist other paths to improve the present zoning and tie it in with the comprehensive plan (assuming it gets rewritten in our lifetime). I don’t think it’s fair to pick and choose which businesses are allowed to operate in Granville, and that is precisely what I (and the other eight people included in the minutes) was debating in the 2004 council minutes you posted, which is why council relented and removed the retrictive nature of the zoning, and why Mr. McFarland warned council that the language in the ordinance was a ticking time bomb (I believe this was the beginning of the Super America fiasco).
With regard to traffic and parking: It’s frustrating. Whether during a regular buisness day, or on our way to church, a parking spot is simply hard to come by. We need to get out in front of tihs and actually make some decisions to improve the current set up. As far as traffic flow on the busier streets in town (College, Granger, Prospect) the traffic pattern is like a slalom course, and someone is going to get hit, or worse, hurt. Staggered parking (or in political correct speak: Traffic Calming) is not very effective, but is expensive for those who have lost a mirror while trying to navigate the streets. Again, if we need on street parking for our residents, let’s work it out.
Thanks for letting me respond,
Ben Barton
"If we need on street parking for our residents?????"
"If we need on street parking for our residents?"
Hey man take some time when you are flying by and look at the size of some of our lots.
Go slower
Keep it simple. Go slower and you won’t lose your mirror anymore and we won’t lose any kids.
Ben, here is what was said
Ben,
Here is what was said that night:
"Mr. Bellman stated that what Granville needs is high quality businesses that bring a high tax base, but low traffic. … He stated that businesses like that in Erinwood are the best types of facilities are perfect revenue generators, and have the least impact on surrounding residents. … Mr. Bellman stated that he feels property values could be affected if the Ordinance does not pass, which would also have a negative affect on school taxes. He stated that if a fast food restaurant were to be built it would reduce the value of a $300,000/ $400,000 home in Erinwood…
…
Ben Barton stated that Mr. Bellman doesnt speak for all of Granville, and he speaks for no one that he knows. He stated that when Mr. Bellman spoke of what Granville wants and needs he is making a one man wrecking ball statement."
Roger
How to Win Friends and Influence People
"one man wrecking ball statement" — Ben always did have a way with words
conflicts
In a small town, there will always be conflicts. The key is disclosure, recusal and avoidance. Some of it is a matter of law. Most of it is a matter of judgment.
It would be ridiculous to exclude farmers from Township government. For years, we’ve had Jim Havens, a real estate development lawyer, and Bill Habig, a real estate development consultant appointed to replace Havens, serving as the Trustee overseeing real estate development issues. The Township form of government was set up many years ago for farmers to self-govern agricultural areas. As those rural areas suburbanized, many other interests have played a role in Township government. But farmers remain well-qualified for Trustee jobs. The fact that a farmer may have to let a lease expire on 3% of the acreage he farms is trivial.
Paul Jenks, the machine’s trustee candidate, is father-in-law of the fire chief. Jenks is running on a joint ticket with (appointed) trustee Bill Mason, who oversees the fire department. All three Trustees control fire department decisions, such as the chief’s salary and budget. Perhaps Jenks can recuse himself from decisions involving the Township’s biggest department. But the conflict seems harder to cure.
Village Council candidate Ben Barton does own River Road land he wants to annex to the Village, get Village water and sewer and have the land zoned by the Village in a certain way. But this conflict is less problematic than it may first seem. Ben has always been totally upfront about his land and concerns. He’s pursued his goals above the radar, in entirely proper ways and with admirable straightforwadness. If he’s elected to Village Council, he’d have to recuse himself from the relevant issues, so, oddly, he might have a little less influence ON the Council as OFF the Council, at least as it relates to his development plans
Ben’s land ownership doesn’t disqualify him in any way from being on the Council, nor should it be used against him. The conflict is known and easily cured. Ben is doing things the right way. He thinks the Council has been too anti-growth. He’s said so publicly. Now he’s running to change the policies. And he’s running himself, not through proxies. This is the way democracy is supposed to work. Ben’s conflict is not a problem. (His ideas — youch! that’s a problem!) But Ben has handled any potential conflict in a reasonable and honorable way.
YesMan is right on conflict of interest
YesMan,
I hate to admit it, but I think you are right on Barton’s "conflict of interest."
Hal
check it out
conflict of interest?…he is a co owner of a pond with a really nice wooden platform dock. How many people have ponds in the township? Answer is : Several
nice location though..
Let's not upset the apple cart of cooperative approach
Melissa Hartfield has done a solid job as mayor. Her ability to run a meeting in a way that keeps it moving without ticking off everyone is the best I have ever seen in Granville local government. She is pretty middle-of-the-road in her approach to issues.
Matt McGowan also has a middle-of-the-road approach and has a good deal of experience with village issues.
Michelle Lerner is clearly the right fresh face for the Village Council. She has a good handle on what most village residents want, has a balanced view of development and is committed to the success of the school district.
One more thing… Hartfield, McGowan, and Lerner are just well suited for the job: they all have the willingness to listen to others; they persuade rather than pressure; and they have no conflict of interest issues.
Conflicts for trustees are OK, but not for council?
TruckerHal,
It seems you are implying that Mr. Barton has a conflict of interest and thus is not suitable for village council. Yet elsewhere you state you are voting for VanNess for trustee with no apparent regard for his serious conflicts of interest. Someone with a 1 of 7 vote and a just a few acres owned as an investment is nowhere near the magnitude of conflict as someone with a 1 of 3 vote and thousands of acres at stake involving a primary occupation.
How do you square your positions?
Easy
The farmer wants to remain a farmer and is not actively trying to get his land rezoned.
the zone
hope not…sounds interesting though.
Exactly. That's why it's a concern.
The fact that he would want to remain a farmer is exactly why it’s a concern. Obviously being a farmer is a good thing. Having the ability to guarantee that go forward with millions of dollars of taxpayer greenspace money is where the potential for conflict arises. We don’t need any more million dollar smiles only to get nothing in return. Not to mention the leases with the township that he says he will keep despite the ‘Fred’s garage’ debacle.
These issues need to at least be addressed.
You are right uptown
You are right. The issues do need addressing.
I see no way he can continue the leases. I heard somewhere it amounts to a small amount of land so it shouldn’t be hard to drop those and it won’t cost the township $700,000 like Fred’s garage did.
I have heard nothing about him wanting to sell development rights to his land. There is "potential" conflict as you say. Granville is small enough I guess just about anybody in Granville would have some "potential" conflict.
good answers
Some very good answers all around, I think. Thanks to the candidates.